Rivarossi Early Baltimore & Ohio with box set (Ac or DC)

[Nukem001]

Hi this early box set including the vintage B&O Locomotive is an interesting one it was on auction from a seller on American eBay. By the pictures it appears to be ac voltage, however as it is in an all red box. It was my understanding that all ac models were packaged in blue boxes. Alternatively, it could be 3 rail dc. Personally, I think it appears more like an ac model with overide contacts for feeding the coil. My E626 was originally built for Hornby - Dublo 3 rail, with centre pick-up shoes, because Hornby-Dublo operated a 12v dc system it of course was unnecessary to provide the overcurrent supply.

Gianni, Massimo, Andrea and Giorgio I need you all to solve the mystery

Every Blessing Howard

[Andrea F Ferrari]

Hi Howard,
maybe the old owner of the set could decide to convert the loco on AC system even if it was borned to DC....
I don't know very well and I was confused too when I have seen the rails with the third rail.

In my opinion it could be modified in the years...but it is only in my opinion...

Happy Easter to you e a tutti gli amici del forum,

Andrea

[Nukem001]

Thank you Andrea you explanation may be correct. Interestingly, if you look closely at the spur gear arrangement the model has the early motor type with the larger sprocket teeth. There were 32 teeth on the primary sprocket and 17 teeth on the compound sprocket. In later models this was changed to 54 and 16 repectively. It is my understanding that this modification was undertaken to reduce the travelling speed, in-line wth "scale speed" These spur gear motors were used in the E626 and as far as I know in the Cosmo 691.

May I also wish all my Italian friends and families a very Happy Easter

Howard

[Peppe-1946]

Salve,mi sono registrato per partecipare alle vostre interessanti discussioni.Ormai vecchio,ma da sempre appassionato collezionista di antico Rivarossi,conosco alcuni di voi:
qualcuno personalmente,altri per aver sentito in diverse occasioni il loro nome:sara' interessante conoscere gli altri
frequentatori del forum.
Il mio primo scritto e' dedicato all'amico Howard,che mi ha
contattato su un noto sito d'aste on-line qualche tempo fa,
a proposito della recente inserzione cui fa riferimento.
La confezione cui fa riferimento e' la I B&O M std48 (Anno 1948)
La motrice è in corrente continua,ed è facilmente deducibile
dai fogli allegati alla confezione stessa,per cui il modello
non puo' aver subito manomissioni.
Posso affermarlo con certezza,in quanto sono fortunato posses
sore della confezione in condizioni quasi pari al nuovo.
Ovviamente se qualche amico avesse bisogno di foto dei
modelli,o degli allegati,non ha che da chiederlo.
Segue una breve traduzione per l'amico Howard.
Un salutone a tutti gli amici vecchi e nuovi.Peppe

My first writing and 'dedicated to his friend Howard, who gave me
contacted on a popular auction site online some time ago,
about the recent ad is referring to.
The package referenced, is the I B&O M std48 (Year 1948)
The motor vehicle is in direct current, and is easily deducible
from the sheets attached to the package itself, for which the model
can not 'have been tampered with.
I can say for sure, because I'm lucky possessor
thickness of the package under almost like new.
Obviously if a friend needed a picture of
models, or any attachments, has only to ask.
Best regards.Peppe

[Nukem001]

Peppe,

Thank you for your response and explanation. I was supprised to know that Rivarossi produced DC models for three rail. As mentioned I had a E626 bought for me for Christmas 1953 by my father and it had central pick-up shoes to accommodate running requirements 0f Hornby - Dublo.

What I did not understand from the photograph was the reason for the side circular pick-ups, which I presumed were for the 25v overcurrent to energise the coil electro-magnet. This is why I thought the model was AC.

Please see a picture of an old Trix-Twin locomotve, These models were made in the UK around the late 40's early 50's. This model is AC and it resembles the Rivarossi B&O spur gear motor design and pick-up arrangements.

Also see two pictures of a Rivarossi B&O AC model.

I would like to see some pictures of your locomotives also peppe.

All my best regards and a very Happy Easter to you Howard

[Peppe-1946]

Un saluto ad Howarsd ed a tutti gli amici del forum.
Rivarossi ha prodotto dei modelli con questo tipo di
alimentazione (come Trix) al fine di far circolare 3 treni indipendenti sullo stesso binario.
Collegando i poli negativi al binario centrale,si potevano alimentare 1 treno dalla linea aerea,e altri due indipendenti
uno dalla rotaia destra ed uno dalla sinistra.
In questo momento ho disponibile la foto di uno dei primi
modelli di AN1 (Il bombolone!) ed è evidente che,è provvisto di pattini,ma è un modello in DC.Purtroppo non sono in grado di caricarla:qualcuno,cortesemente mi puo' aiutare?
Grazie.Peppe
Greetings to all friends of the forum and Howarsd ​​
Rivarossi has produced models with this type of
feeding (as Trix) in order to circulate 3 trains independent on the same track.
By connecting the negative pole to the central track , you could feed 1 train by the airline, and two other independent
one from the left rail,and another from the right rail.
I currently have available the photo of one of the first
models of AN1 and is evident that, is provided with shoes, but is a model in DC.I am not able to load it: someone, kindly can help me?
Grazie.Peppe

[Talgo49]

Hello Howard,

The subject of the pick-up shoes in the very old Rivarossi locos has already been discussed. Please give a look to my post dated May 25 2001 in the thread "Serie blu", presently in page 3 of the Forum and to my posting to you dated June 13 2011 in the thread "B&O 1948 series" presently in page 8. The sprung "mushroom" shoes were only one of the two poles for current pick-up, they had nothing to do with direction reversing in AC locos; direction reversing in Rivarossi AC model was actuated through a relay very similar to the Maerklin relay. As I wrote in the above postings the real confusing factor was the other shoe which, while in AC model was normally fit in central position, in DC models could be installed both in central and in side position, allowing, as Peppe wrote, the independent operation of three locos on the same line.

Happy Easter
Gianni

Ciao Howard,
L'argomento dei pattini di presa di corrente nelle vecchissime locomotive Rivarossi è già stato discusso. Ti prego di dare un'occhiate al mio messaggio del 25/5/2011 nell'argomento "Serie blu", attualmente a pagina 3 del Forum e al mio mio messaggio a te del 13/6/2011 nell'argomento "B&O 1948 series" attualmente a pagina 8. I pattini molleggiati "a fungo" erano solo uno dei due poli di presa di corrente, non avevano nulla a che fare con l'inversione di marcia nelle locomotive in CA; l'inversione di marcia nei modelli in CA di Rivarossi era effettuata tramite un relè molto simile al relè Maerklin. Come ho scritto nei messaggi di cui sopra il vero fattore di confusione era l'altro pattino di presa di corrente che, mentre nei modelli in CA era solitamente installato in posizione centrale, nei modelli in CC poteva essere installato sia in posizione centrale che laterale permettendo, come ha scritto Peppe, il funzionamento indipendente di tre locomotive sulla stessa linea.

Buona Pasqua
Gianni

[Nukem001]

Gianni and Peppe I must apollogise for raising the voltage issue once again I had completely forgotten about the the previous topic "Evolution of the B&O" I should have looked back at the previous posts which I think were perfectly well explained. I had actually missed a number of the responses so it was good to return to the subject and get a clearer picture of the history. I am amazed at the number of motor versions there were for this locomotive notwithstanding the pick-up shoes for AC and DC but also the motor unit with course and fine gear arrangements.

Thank you and best wishes Howard

[Andrea F Ferrari]

Ciao a tutti,
ho seguito con interesse la discussione.
Mi fa piacere sapere (grazie al nuovo amico Peppe) che il modello non è stato manomesso come invece lo sono stati molti altri...
E poi pensavo che il sistema a tre rotaie in cc fosse stato usato solo più avanti...
sono contento di aver imparato qualcosa di nuovo...
Il Nostro forum è una vera fonte di conoscenze.
ancora auguri di Buona Pasqua a tutti
Andrea

[Talgo49]

La recente riapertura di un argomento sulla Dockside (colpa di Oliviero ) mi ha portato a rileggere questo thread. Dopo il quesito iniziale di Howard, ero tentato di dare un mia risposta, ma ho esitato perchè c'era un particolare che non mi convinceva. Confesso che questa esitazione mi ha evitato una figuraccia perchè stavo commettendo un grosso sbaglio.
La mia risposta sarebbe stata questa:

Mentre la risposta esatta di Peppe era questa:

C'ero arrivato vicino, ma con un piccolo dettaglio errato: la mia soluzione era in CA mentre la soluzione corretta era in CC.
Il particolare che non mi convinceva era la posizione delle spazzole, nelle foto di Howard erano sul lato destro mentre nella mia soluzione erano a sinistra. Nei cataloghi pre-1955 le spazzole appaione sempre a sinistra, sia per le loco in CA che in CC, ma nel catalogo 1948 la cosa non è chiara.
A questo punto devo coinvolgere di nuovo Peppe: può essere che nei suoi primissimi anni la versione in CC (St48) della Dockside avesse la spazzole sul lato destro?

Gianni

The recent re-opening of a discussion about the Dockside (it's Oliviero's fault ) took me to read again this thread. After the initial question from Howard, I was tempted to give my answer. but I hesitated because there was a detail which did not convince me. I confess that this avoided me a poor figure because I was making a big mistake.
My answer would have been this:

While Peppe's correct solution was this

I had got close, but with a small wrong detail: my solution was in AC while the correct solution was in DC.
The detail that didn't convince me was the position of the brushes, in Howard's photos they were on the right side while in my solution they were on the left side.
In the catalogs pre-1955 the brushes always appear on the left side both for locos in AC and in DC, but in the 1948 catalog this is not clear.
Now I must involve again Peppe: can it be that in its very first years the DC (St48) version of the Dockside had its brushes on the right side?

Gianni